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Friday, April 21. 2006ethanol e85 conversion kits
Update 06/2008: Since the writing of this post, ethanol conversion kits are now available. You can purchase a e85 ethanol conversion kit here.
It sounds like a simple idea. Converting a car from normal unleaded gasoline to ethanol 85 should be easy with the aid of a conversion kit. Unfortunately, this is not the case, there are no conversion kits available that will pass EPA standards. In the 1990's the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) put laws into effect that made it rather hard for such conversions. The laws basicly state that if there is a conversion to be made for any type of alternate fuel, the exhaust must be as clean or cleaner than gasoline. An excerpt from e85fuel.com "Today, 99.9 percent of the vehicles that are capable of operating on alternative transportation fuels are produced by the original equipment manufacturers such as Ford, General Motors, and DaimlerChrysler. Engineers from these companies are able to design and build vehicles that meet the EPA exhaust emission standards. These companies also are required to warranty the exhaust emissions from these vehicles for 10 years or 100,000 miles, something very few conversion companies are able to accomplish." At this point there are only two options, convert your car with a non-certified EPA conversion and fail inspections or the better idea of purchasing a new car that is e85 ready. There are many options to choose from, you can view all the cars available at e85fuel.com or you can purchase an e85 ethanol conversion kit here. 
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I don't understand how emissions would be a problem if ethanol burns so much cleaner than gasoline. It seams to me the exhaust would be more effective at removing harmful carbons. It removes water,which inturn would make the exhaust last many times longer than they do now!
Are you a member of the oil cartel that is sucking Americans dry????
Ethanol is an oxygenated fuel that burns cleaner by bringing extra oxygen in the combustion process. The extra oxygen becomes part of the problem: it makes the fuel mixture too lean. Yes, E85 vehicles burn more fuel to produce the same power as regular gasoline. This is the beginning of the problem. Powertrain engineering will change materials used in the fuel injectors, fuel supply lines and some materials in the electric fuel pump to withstand the harsh environment elevated levels of ethanol bring.
Assuming someone could produce a “E85 Kit”, who would install it? Who would fix it? Who would sell the parts? How long would it last? Modern vehicles are computer controlled for accurate emission control. The program software is unique to many things including fuel delivery. Who would you fix that?
There is a lot of political B.S. (to be frank) going on with Ethanol and alternative fuels! It's sad to think our country would keep back something that is so benefical to all of us! It's all about the money and the pull for power in big oil corporations and with our government. I am sure we will be in a "state of emergancy" and they will filter in alternative fuels as they did with R12 on coolant systems! When it's to their benefit they will turn the other way and allow people to have the conversion kits...
The only thing that might need to be done it an effie device to control your oxygen sensor.
Our governments took out Al Capone, Jimmy Hofa, so they can take over and control the rakit to its called AFT in the us and LCBO in Canada, our government has more control than you think. it the people who really have the power to change things but our society is to ignorant to step up because individually they feel they won,t make a difference alone, but if we all stood together what a difference we could make. this is why the government forces us to have permits and limits what were allowed to use as a fuel because they want to control it. if they can go to other countries and murder innocent civilians and have fellow Americans cheer them on,, they should be ashamed, before there is any difference made, we have to learn to stand up to our government to remind them we are the ones who give them power. Canada has become more aware of issues and are allowing use here to make change, they even put up 30 million in grants to find other sources and inventions. i think in long term were already out of gas, so its up to us to find the solutions, and as long as we don,t sell out to corporate America we will be ok.
Oil Cartel? Where do you get that idea from? The entire site is promoting Ethanol!!
When will Honda come out with a flexfuel vehical and/or offer a conversion kit?
I dont think its a matter of Honda coming out with a conversion kit, its a matter of other companies making the parts for the kits.
How would I change over a vehicle to a PHEV (plug in electric vechicle)? changing over a hybrid voids the warranty, so I was looking at something cheaper such as adding an electric motor to the front of a 4wd s10 truck.
I ran 2 tank fulls of this E85 in my 2002 Ford Focus ZX5. I had no problems, why are only some vehilcles calles "dual fuel" vehicles? Are there diffrences in the materals used in the injectors, fuel lines etc? I put regular gas back into my focus until I find out otherwise can someone help me?
I have a conversion kit on my Ford Explorer for over a year now and it works great. I also sell them to those interested locally and it works great. Let me know if anyone is interested in one.
thanks jacob
I am thinking of giving in a little to the e85 SCAM to save a few bucks(not much). Could you give me a little more info on your conversion kits?
JAKE, I WOULD BE INTRESTED IN INFORMATION ON YOUR KITS. PLEASE E-MAIL SOME IF YOU CAN. THX SEAN
Hey Jake-
I have a 1993 Toyota Corolla that I have decided to try E85 in and there have been no problems and no noticeable change in mileage. Quite frankly I think all of the info against using it in your vehicle is a bunch of @#$%! Logically one has to think that people are able to burn alcohol in stock cars, which are usually souped up older carb engines and people have been using 105 octane av gas in their vehicles for a long time. Also, if something is going to go wrong, when could one expect that? I would be interested in finding a conversion kit for my car, as there has to be something since I know everyone in Brazil did not go out and buy new cars to use ethanol! Thanks-
Jake, I'm interested in a convertion kit. Can you send info and price?
Thanks
WHERE DID YOU BUY IT? AND WHO PUT IN ? I HAVEA 2000 COUGAR AND 2005 DODGE NEON
THANKS JAKE P
Please send me info on the conversion kit.I'm am interested in seeing if i can put it on my jeep cherokee.Thanks
Bill K
PLease send me info or a link for a flex fuel kit ofr a 2007 Taurus w 3.0 OHV 6 cyl engine, thanks
Hi,
I have a 1991 Escort. It's freak'n awesome on mileage but, I would be interested in E-85 conversion. I only paid 800.00 for it so I figured why not try it out. If the car takes a dump_ oh well. Please, let me know any information that you might have on kits. Thanks
I am interested in conversion kit for my 2001 jeep gran cherokee. Could you send me some info on it, How much? who to get to install it or can I do it? etc
Thanks
Did you get the kit? If so, please tell me if you like its performance.
I have a 94 Explorer XLT. Email me the info on the conversion kit. Gas prices are putting a huge dent in my budget.
I have to say that during the winter months in most states 10% Ethanol is used to lower emmissions. One would have to think that you could safely use E-85 in your non-converted car. I think it is a bunch of hype to get us to go out and purchase new cars and conversion kits which only benefit those individuals in those types of business'. I am using a blend ( about 50-50) of Ethanol and Unleaded and have not experienced any problems. I have a 3/4 ton Chevy Suburban. Seems to drive just fine. Does anyone remember when the lead was taken out of gasoline and everyone thought that if you owned a car that required lead fuel that you were not going to be able to drive your car...? Back in the 70's everyone who had to make the transition from Lead to unleaded seemed to transition just fine.
Just my opinion.
I also have a 3/4 ton Suburban that I run E-85 in. It is a non-converted 1988 model and when I started running E-85 with an accidental fill-up, I was worried, and searched the web extensively for articles on the hazzards of running the fuel. The first tank made the engine sputter for about 15 miles before the ECM compensated for the fuel mix. But then purred like a kitten. Since then I run E-85 as often as possible with no noticible adverse effects. In my home desert climate my city mpg gained about 2 1/2 mpg which I attributed to the E-85 cleanibg the fuel system. After the second or third tank my mpg jumped from 14 mpg to almost 17 mpg and 20 on the highway. And that was without tuning a thing! I now run a mix between both because of availability issues but still average 15-16 mpg (+5 mpg from the start)and saving about 17.00 per tankful. That's enough research for me.
Just my own results.
There are NO EPA approved E85 conversion kits currently. There may be some, however, if you do apply one, you will be arrested, and pressed heavily on charges. I rather spend 3.70 for gas (chicago) than spend 1/4 in my life in prision with money payments still needing to be payed. The only way to buy E85 legally for a car, is to buy a E85 ready car...good luck finding one though. They are priced extremely high, aswell as being limited on E85 gas stations.
It's not EPA's fault that E85 can't combust well in unleaded fuel ready cars. It's alot more complicated than one might think. The Air:fuel ratio will change drastically, which will rely more on the air combustion, which i guess is a good thing, but will be hard to match properly. You will also need a new fuel pump, that will be able to hold an electric charge that E85 will constantly carry, new fuel lines, a new fuel injector, PCM calibrations...Why more complex than you think. If anything, all our current cars will be dumped in the junk yard, and E85 will be our only choice, gas related wise. There are other alternatives such as hydropowered hydroelectric powered electric powered Solar powered Compressed Air powered Those are the most hotly discused. People need to do more research on these things. E85 is a good idea, however, highly unlikely you will be able to use your current car without spending more then x2 your car is worth.
I believe there are also other considerations most people are unaware of or have not thought about. I have been advised by people working at the local ethanol plant that it takes about 8 gallons of fresh water and a considerable amount of natural gas to produce each gallon of ethanol. Fresh water and ground water is becoming a considerable concern in several areas of the US already. If the ethanol industry weren't federally supported (your tax dollars at work) it would be totally impractical and extremely overpriced. Not to mention that without significant internal engine modifications you will get about 25-30% less miles per gallon (more depending on the percentage of alcohol per gallon) due to the reduced energy content of alcohol as compared to gasoline. I have personally done numerous tests of the 10% ethanol blend and can attest that each of the last 5 vehicles I've personally owned (all fuel injected) experienced a consistent 8% decrease in fuel economy. So unless you just like to spend more money to feel good or whatever your ethanol blend in its least concentrated needs to be at least 8-10% lower priced to break even and that just ain't the case at the pumps. I don't know about you but I would much prefer to buy oil than food and water. The increased use of corn is also putting price pressures on food at the supermarket. Bottom line you will pay for it one way or another. I think it's harder to poison oil for our use than food or water. Remember the poison dog food incident not long ago? The truth is there is more undiscovered oil in this world than we could hope to use up in 500 years or more not to mention all that is known of. And don't preach "global warming" to me either. It is simply a hoax with the purpose of redistribution of wealth world wide whose "facts" can't be verified by scientific methods. Not to mention the arrogance of people who think the current climate is ideal for all. There is past historical as well as geological proof that during warmer climates in the past greater portions of the planet were tillable and produced crops which do not now.
If people are truly serious about running ethanol or methanol then let's do it right. Raise compression ratios to 12-14 to one put in larger radiators and a gas or ether assist for cold weather starting and at least be efficient about it.
I have a 1992 Ford Crown Vic LX and a 2004 Mercury Grand Marquis. The 1992 Ford Crown Vic consistently got 24 - 25 mph on 87 Unleaded; it still does on 87 Octane Unleaded with 10% Ethanol. When we got the 2004 Grand Marquis it never got over 24 mpg on 87 Octane Unleaded; 23 mpg was the average. The past two months (November 2007 - January 10, 2008) I have driven several 400 miles trips using 87 Octane Unleaded with 10% ethanol. It gets a consistent 25.3 average (with 26.33 mpg the best) on the same interstate and driving condition/speed as it was driven when I used 87 Octane Unleaded in it. It now has 33,560 miles on it and still has the orginal spark plugs; the air filter was changed every 10,000 miles. Modern day scientist and archeologist tell us that there is sufficient supply of known crude oit reserves to sustain Earth at its current cunsumption rate to last 47 - 65 years; in case you do not realize how much time that is.... 65 years versus 1 - 4 billion. Scientist predict that the Sun will continue to burn at its current rate for 1 billion more years; 3 more billion and it will burn out, but not before expanding large enough to consume Mercury, Venus, Earth, the Moon, and Mars.
I have a 1987 Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe - it gets slightly better gas mileage (3/10ths mpg better 25 - 26 mpg vs 25.3 - 27 mpg) when using 87 Octane Unleaded with 10% Ethanol than it did when I used 87 Octane Unleaded in it. Where on Earth and when did you get that report of undiscovered crude oil reserves - sufficient enough to last the world 500 years. I would say that might be true if the rate of consumption used to make that analyst was 1908 when Ford was in the process of perfecting the automobile production line; trains used wood; most households were heated by wood; and electricity in the home and workplace was an idea that would not come into reality until 20 - 25 years later. If it is undiscovered, how do you know there is that much????? HUH? To use ethanol or not as a percentage of fuel in our vehicles has nothing to do with the wheat glutien that the Chinese processing plant poisoned with insecticide that eventually ended up in pet food and pig food. I am sorry but the rest of the world - all 5 billion several million of us do not get your meaning or connection to pet food poision and the growing of corn for the ethanol processing plant(s); it is not even a simile. Just a quick remark about green house effect. It is the CO2 emitted and heat that comes from millions of vehicles, homes, power plants, the burning of forest, and other open air burning of fossil fuels, combustibles, etc that is causing the global warming.
Why even buy a conversion kit? My 2005 Focus is not E85 ready yet I've ran e85 gas in it since it came out here in Idaho. The first tank made my engine light come on, but it went off after about 3 tanks. Runs like a champ though. No conversion necessary. I have right at 60K miles on my focus now and I'd say 50k of that has been E85 with no conversion kit.
All fuels are less harmful than gasoline it the amount consumed. back in the 30, they had a methanol tractor that ran at 100 rpm and could plow 100 miles of field on 5 gallons.
We already have the technologies to over come our energy needs passing a bill is not going to change a thing our government will find a way to control it it theres money involved. it is our civil right, this is a free country and when our government steps in to steal our ideas. as a society we bitch yet never do anything about it we should have the right to make our own fuels with out having to report to our government . the golden rule of changing bills it they set it up so once this bills passes they change it to pass or free up something else to screw the people. |
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Much like in America, ethanol is also booming down under in Australia. According to Tony Kelly, the New South Wales Minister for Regional Development, service stations have been converting vehicles and gas stations as fast as they could. The only probl
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